DISPENSATIONAL CONFUSION?

DISPENSATIONAL CONFUSION?

“And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and  mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16).

The following is simply a casual response from someone in a major denomination who is, apparently, a famous evangelist—yes, he used the word “famous.”  Anyway, turns out he has a Jewish background, and joined Tribnet 7000 FB group; and when he found out that SOME on Tribnet 7000 affirm that Israel’s “full identity” did not match his interpretation of the Scriptures, he dropped the entire Group like a hot potato!

Perhaps this may demonstrate a lot of the thinking “out there”–something many of us have seen—but you can readily discern the confusion in his delivery—this is AFTER he allegedly read some of our material on CT.  Very interesting…his remarks are in BOLD.

The Evangelist:

As for the Commonwealth of Israel, The Church, and Israel are completely different. Not even the same roles, but the Church shares in some of the promises as Israel does, for they are the heirs with Abraham; but the Church is not Israel.

Obviously, this is the result of Dispensationalism—which permeates the mentality of American evangelicalism.  Within Dispensationalism there is this rigid DISTINCTION between their interpretation of what is Israel and their interpretation of what is the Church–each has their own roles; unfortunately, that DISTINCTION overwhelms and continues into virtual and perpetual SEPARATION between the two in their roles–even throughout the Millennium and even there are two wives–“The Wife of Jehovah” for Israel and the Bride of Messiah, for the Church–THAT’S big time SEPARATION.

Christians are not Jews, even though some Jews are Christians.

Indeed, we’ve made that very clear:  Christians—those “elect from among the nations” DO NOT REPLACE JEWS; and, of course, he sees “Israel” as only the Jews—ANY replacement of the tribes—i.e., the 10 Tribes of the North, constitutes replacement of the Jews—which, of course, is not the case at all in CT – the Jews are still the Jews – “saved or unsaved” – “redeemed or unredeemed.”  Again, at issue is not whether one is a Jew but the definition of ISRAEL….

The church isn’t asleep as it used to be, but she has been awakened a little while, just trimming their lamps. Now, you have stated “The Commonwealth of Israel” [taken from Ephesians 2:12–“aliens from the commonwealth of Israel”].  Do you mean the “Commonwealth of Ephraim?”  That might refer to America, but maybe not, but we bless all, and if you want to be blessed, or share in the Commonwealth [of Israel?], then bless Israel, and God will bless you, but if you curse Israel, God will curse you.

Where he comes up with the “Commonwealth of Ephraim” is anyone’s guess—even AMERICA as Ephraim—which he does a bit of a waffle act by stating “America may or may not be the Commonwealth of Ephraim.”  Notwithstanding, whatever America is, she should bless and not curse today’s Jews/Israel.  Also, it appears that if we Christians from “among the nations” wish to “share in the Commonwealth of Israel, then we should bless Israel, then God will bless us, and if we curse Israel, God will curse us.”  Apparently, and although we are included in the Commonwealth of Israel according to Ephesians 2:12, if we do not bless his definition of Israel, we will not be blessed but cursed?  Is that what I’m hearing and reading?

Israel is the apple of God’s eye whoever touches Israel touches the apple of God’s eye.  On the other hand, Jews–which is my ethnicity–are considered Israel, all of us are, but not all who say they are Israel are Israel, or of Israel.

Is the antecedent of his “all of us are” referring to all Jews like him are considered Israel or just Jews who are redeemed are Israel?  I don’t think he is suggesting that non-Jews can be a part of Israel.

Perhaps we’re in view of an admixture wherein “Jews—which is my ethnicity—are considered Israel, all of us are, but not all who say they are Israel are Israel, or of Israel”  Herein lies a bit of confusion in his reasoning in that within Israel he alludes to the “redeemed of Israel” and those not redeemed are not of Israel—but, on the other hand, even though the Jews are “considered Israel—all of us” – but not all the Jews within Israel are in actuality the “True Israel” – thus, the “True Israel” are only those Jews of “National Israel” who have been redeemed.  Pinning him down on this would be somewhat of a necessity.

I read some of the things on your website (CT). I am sorry to say, but I don’t believe in the theology that is stated on CT. it’s nothing against you, but I am a famous Evangelist with a global outreach into the hundreds of millions—I lost count.  But as far as CT goes, I do not agree with it because it is not as I believe.

CONCLUSION:

Obviously, this “famous evangelist” sees an altogether stark view of the separation of the “Church and Israel” – that means:  YES DISTINCTION – YES SEPARATION (big time)…all the while confusing ISRAEL’S definition.

Yet, he separates out the “redeemed of the Jews/Israel” and alludes to the fact that only they (not the Christians of non-ethnic-Jewish backgrounds) constitute the “Israel of God” – whereas, some Jews who claim they are “of Israel” and not redeemed, really are NOT of Israel (Rom. 9:6?)

Apparently, in his thinking, only Jews who are redeemed can be considered the “Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16).  In point of fact I have a very dear and close brother in the Lord who has been a friend of mine for decades; he affirms the very same thing; i.e., in Paul’s benediction to the Galatian assembly he states:

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them” [my friend tells me that this part of the benediction is for the “Gentile believers” in Galatia—i.e., the “uncircumcised”] – then he brings up the issue of the conjunction AND which indicates a pause and a complete separation between the Gentile believers and the Jewish believers; therefore, when Paul says:  “AND upon the Israel of God” — he is referring only to those Jews within the Galatian assemblies who are not only redeemed, but also affirm the concept of the “New Creation” wherein circumcision or uncircumcision avails nothing, but a New Creation!

I find his exegesis a disconcerting narrative separating the “elect from among the nations” from the “Jews” who, likewise, have been separated unto the Gospel of the Grace of God where there is neither Jew nor Greek but all are One Body. My friend would have us believe that the “Gentile believers” constitute a portion of the New Creation and the other portion of the New Creation are Jews who enjoy the New Creation (as well) and are, therefore, the “Israel of God” or the “redeemed of Israel.”  Can you follow me?

This is a most subtle defamation of the truth of Scripture.  There is nothing in Paul’s benediction which would suggest that only the Jewish believers constitute the ISRAEL OF GOD – nor that “peace and mercy” is extended just to “Gentile believers” but NOT to Jewish believers!

Paul’s benediction is INCLUSIVE of both the “elect from among the nations” (aka, the uncircumcised) and Jewish believers—both are enjoined to “walk according to this rule” (i.e., the Law of Christ) – and BOTH are duly recognized as the ISRAEL OF GOD (not just the Jewish believers).

The “middle wall of separation” was broken down—that “wall of partition” by the blood of the cross—SO MAKING PEACE.  That’s the PEACE Paul speaks of between Jew and “Gentile” – and that’s the mercy extended to BOTH Houses, if you would (Romans 9-11).

Now, what I am hearing—and correct me if I am wrong—but with Messianic believers, many of them, like this brother, take offense, when we (“the elect from among the nations”) would suggest that we TOO are a part of the ISRAEL OF GOD.  Right?  They, apparently, have no difficulty in being BOTH a part of the New Creation, the One Body, aka, the CHURCH – but within that One Body they maintain their identity as the “redeemed of Israel” and are, therefore, the ISRAEL OF GOD—whereas, we (e.g., the ethnic Galatians) are simply “members of the same Body” once we are redeemed—it’s like within the One Body where there is NOT supposed to be “Jew nor Greek” – our Jewish House rigorously demands that they constitute ALL ISRAEL or TRUE ISRAEL or THE ISRAEL OF GOD- even SPIRITUAL ISRAEL – and, of course, unredeemed Jews who “consider themselves Israel” really aren’t Israel because they are not redeemed Israel.

This appears as a case of CHOSEN CHOSENESS!  They find themselves in this super-inflated position that not even the most righteous Jew of Israel can attain—they are the super Jews—the true Israelites and the only ISRAEL OF GOD.

Instead of the Jews being subsumed by the Church and the Church proclaiming that they and they alone are the ISRAEL OF GOD—we have the Messianics proclaiming just as loud that only they constitute the ISRAEL OF GOD and, although they are members of the Church, only they can be the Israel of God!

I know I must sound terribly redundant–but what is at issue here–is precision:  What is our definition of the ISRAEL OF GOD?  This Messianic Jew seems to exhibit an overweening sense of Judah’s propriety in all things Israel–even though it is altogether obvious that we, “the elect from among the nations” — who once were aliens — have now been brought via the blood of the cross of Jesus into the very Commonwealth of Israel – so WHO IS THE ISRAEL OF GOD?  The same ones from both the circumcision and the uncircumcision who have BOTH received “peace and mercy” – WE ALL ARE THE ISRAEL OF GOD!

Moreover – by excluding ethnic Jews from their own Commonwealth, seems to me–on the part of ethnic-Jewish believers in Yeshua and those “elect from among the nations” who once were aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel more than a stretch.  Aren’t those of Judah-Jews-Israel within the POLITY or “jurisdiction” of their own Commonwealth?  Are they somehow “strangers from the covenants of promise?”  If ever there were a people who have among them the promises of the fathers, and the hope of final redemption . . . and of them can we boldly proclaim that they are “without God in the world?”  Think about that for a while.

Yes, they may not have appropriated all that the Father has preserved for their inheritance–but they abide within the Father’s house–and we, who squandered our inheritance and lived sumptuously among the nations–have now returned as the Prodigal Son, who by His mercy, have obtained mercy – how dare we boast that Ephraim has obtained mercy and our Jewish House, Judah, abides in disfavor with our Father…It is time we stop provoking them to anger and provoke them to jealousy that they would see the mercy of the Almighty upon us and accept us as citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel…Yes, time, indeed, for our Messianic brethren to expand their definition of the ISRAEL OF GOD!

 

2 Replies to “DISPENSATIONAL CONFUSION?”

  1. I agree with you, Doug. If there’s any “conjunction” worth noting it would be the strange union between Christians who subscribe to the pre-trib rapture teaching known as dispensationalism AND a majority of the Jewish believers in the Messianic Movement. Because both groups teach that the elect of the nations and the elect of Judah must remain separate and distinct entities. Because both hold to opposing racial prejudices. Yet Scripture says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek…we are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28). All their teachings do is create one more division in the body of Messiah.

    Your conclusion agrees with what I said in my article, “Who is the Israel of God?” Simply, that the Israel of God is none other than all the elect who are in Messiah, both Jew and non-Jew. In him we become “the one new man.” Which is just another way to say the ecclesia is the chosen congregation of God – the Israel within Israel. Which we now finally see is the reunion of Abraham’s chosen descendants, Judah and Ephraim. It’s all just different ways to describe the same chosen people of God.

    This can be somewhat puzzling for those who have rejected Replacement Theology (RT). Because when we say the ecclesia (the “church”) is true Israel, the Israel of God, it starts to sound like RT again. But as you know, RT’s understanding of the ecclesia, which they called “the church,” was that it was a “Gentile” institutional body which had replaced Jewish Israel. Instead of seeing the ecclesia as actually being the nation of Israel, the elect of Ephraim and Judah. Which again is “the Israel of God.”

    The other tricky part in all this concerns worldwide Jewry. Especially, those who now have resettled the land of Israel. Scripture tells us ALL are to be considered God’s people… “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” So where do they fit in to God’s Israel? My best understanding is to see these unsaved Jews as being in a special category. They are like in a temporary state of hibernation regarding the gospel. Isaiah said “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not and ears to hear not.”

    That means their opportunity to join the Israel of God still lies ahead (whether they know it or not). When God’s mercy is poured out on them, as it was on us, many will be elected to God’s “hall of faith” in Hebrews chapter 11. But many won’t be. Many are not God’s people even though physically descended from Abraham. Like so many in Ephraim who are not part of the saved remnant, some Jews will not inherit the promises, either. When Paul said “all Israel will be saved,” he didn’t mean all Jews. But all of Abraham’s chosen seed.

    When the time of opportunity for God’s free gift of salvation ends – the door will shut and the Israel of God will be complete. And all those who are the elect will cry out, “Yeshua is Lord!”

    That’s how I see it

  2. MAN ALIVE! I FINALLY CAN TALK TO YOU! EMAIL ME ASAP! I NEED TO CALL YOU! I have been living and working in Jordan for over a year, and have been going to The Feasts in Jerusalem, keeping Shabbat, and doing Torah! I walked into all this “Jewish stuff” like a 4 x 4 to the face when I got here. (I )Am Yisrael Chai! Literally, and all 12 Tribes to boot! My DNA chain is all 12, and so is my born again self! We are reaching the same conclusions at the same time! I HAVE MORE INFO that you NEED to know! More WILD stuff has happened! If you see Lonny tell him I’m trying to reach him too! I’d also like to get in contact with the Shearers, but YOU are the man of the hour! I put your info together with Gavins and VOILA! BIG PICTURE! You and him, and Hamp, and I are all tracking like an 8 (eternity) track! I have been sharing your charts with tons of people, and also Gavins Moon info. This next year starting Rosh Hoshannah is a DOOZY of “convergence”. I eagerly await your contact! No UFOS please.

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